Anna Marina

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Posts by Anna Marina

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  16

  Ray Franz - Why The Watchtower Cannot Reform

  by Anna Marina in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is me reading a letter ray kindly sent to me in 2008 explaining why the watchtower was not capable of reform.

  the letter is full of wisdom and is very informative.. ray franz's letter to me - why the watchtower cannot reform.

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  Anna Marina

  And one of the founders of the Mormons was called Brigham Young. Just stick an 'n' in his first name and it sounds like a WT policy.
  
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  39

  The real dividing line isn’t between apostates and apologists it’s between...

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  excellent observation from zizek about communist regimes: they didn’t care if people accepted the ideology or took it seriously, so long as people acted as if the ideology was true, that was the important thing.

  in fact the regimes were deeply suspicious people who took the ideology too seriously.

  people who took the ideology seriously were dangerous because they were prone to noticing the inconsistencies and flaws in the system.

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  Anna Marina

  The OP reminds me of a point made by Jonas in his video about life in the Russian Bethel. The particular bit I am thinking of is at 24:00-30:00. Jonas explains that an unwritten rule about Bethel is, do what you want but don't harm the brand. Ie keep unchristian behaviour out of sight.

  My ExJW Story: Working In The Russian Bethel
  
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  39

  The real dividing line isn’t between apostates and apologists it’s between...

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  excellent observation from zizek about communist regimes: they didn’t care if people accepted the ideology or took it seriously, so long as people acted as if the ideology was true, that was the important thing.

  in fact the regimes were deeply suspicious people who took the ideology too seriously.

  people who took the ideology seriously were dangerous because they were prone to noticing the inconsistencies and flaws in the system.

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  Anna Marina

  I left because I could see the most elementary of mistakes in counting. Such as 19 followed by 2 not 20. I did all I could to raise such issues only to be consistently met with a refusal to even open the Bible.

  Plenty of others I know have left. and what a number of these ones say is that the environment is loveless and cruel. It was the lack of love thy neighbour (a basic Christian principle) that troubled them. Also, lack of integrity, seeing sin practiced but hidden (if you were in the favour with the right people). The current child abuse issues are a good example of this. But wife beating has gone on along with adultery and fraud. Sadly these and other unchristian practices haven't achieved the same level of publicity as child abuse.

  Other reasons for leaving is that ordinary people can clearly see that attempts are being made to dumb them down. I have heard it said, "do we really need our brains removing to remain part of this organization?"
  

  An ex-elder explained to me what he had seen happen. He said, say you have a body of Christian men but one turns against Christianity. But he hides it. When the body of elders come to appoint another elder, the anti-Christian one will seek to appoint another anti-Christian one because a Christian would see through him. So gradually over time, the body of elders becomes anti-Christian. And that pattern goes on all the way to the top, so in the end the top is anti-Christian.

  Possibly those at the top were always anti-Christian and were seeking to elevate those of a particular persuasion to make it difficult for those at the bottom (who might be believing Christians) and attempt to silence them.
  
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  16

  Ray Franz - Why The Watchtower Cannot Reform

  by Anna Marina in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is me reading a letter ray kindly sent to me in 2008 explaining why the watchtower was not capable of reform.

  the letter is full of wisdom and is very informative.. ray franz's letter to me - why the watchtower cannot reform.

  1. 
  2. 
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  Anna Marina

  Hi Vidiot - oh I see.

  You may be interested to know that a friend of mine who is fading has met up with her extended family, some of whom are Mormons. Comparing what she has been through at the hands of JWs with her family she says the Mormons use the same methods of control as JWs.
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  16

  Ray Franz - Why The Watchtower Cannot Reform

  by Anna Marina in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is me reading a letter ray kindly sent to me in 2008 explaining why the watchtower was not capable of reform.

  the letter is full of wisdom and is very informative.. ray franz's letter to me - why the watchtower cannot reform.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Anna Marina

  Hi Careful

  Yes I realise I come at this from what might be a unique angle. Also, I wasn't looking for failures in their doctrine, I found out about the self-evident doctrinal errors through be pleasant and helpful. I was lied to about their doctrines. Then I came to realise that just about everyone else had been lied to and no one quite realised it.

  I can only speak of the congregation I was in - not many were equipped to effectively challenge the literature writers. Very few publishers could even distinguish between World War I and World War II. It wasn't that they were stupid, they were too trusting and were not supported with access to accurate facts to which they might have given due consideration. Many in my congregation had very good natures. They were kind and generous but they were being misled and were unable to challenge it. I could not challenge the quasi-intellectual spin either BUT there were some really silly inconsistencies such as the 7th trumpet being handed out in 1919 when 7th one was supposed to have blown in 1914. I went up to a district overseer and asked him about it and he said, "I never realised that before you have two options, either write to the Society or wait on Jehovah to correct things." I said, "I've tried writing, they don't do anything."

  Shortly after that exchange there were no more district overseers.

  Incidenatlly, it took a few years but after I pointed out that Appendix 5B in the NWT Bible entirely contradicted the 1914 doctrine (2006), they came up with this Revised NWT (2013). They removed Appendix 5B. I don't know if what I had said had any influence on their actions. But I could see how insightful Ray's words were, when he said that the idea of them reforming was wishful thinking.

  Hi Vidiot

  I appreciate its not news to everyone, just information in an easy to understand format, which I hope helps others to grow in confidence to stand up to these people who mess with language and numbers. Although I was lied to in my study, I never lacked the confidence to speak up. I had freedom of speech. Sadly, I know this is not the case for many.
  

  The way I view it - they took the identity of the House of Jacob in order to pretend they were Christians. I was told that Jesus was the greatest Jehovah's Witness. Well because the Messiah came from the House of Jacob, that seemed quite a reasonable. But the Watchtower was never Jehovah's Witnesses, not in the proper scriptural sense that they wanted you to believe.
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  21

  cart witnesses

  by stan livedeath in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i drove through a nearby seaside town today.

  it was starting to rain.

  it was cold.

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  Anna Marina

  Sad. So cruel to mislead people like this.

  I look at them standing there in the rain shunning me. Sigh.
  
• 
  21

  cart witnesses

  by stan livedeath in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i drove through a nearby seaside town today.

  it was starting to rain.

  it was cold.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Anna Marina

  Sad. So cruel to mislead people like this.

  I look at them standing there in the rain shunning me. Sigh.
  
• 
  39

  The real dividing line isn’t between apostates and apologists it’s between...

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  excellent observation from zizek about communist regimes: they didn’t care if people accepted the ideology or took it seriously, so long as people acted as if the ideology was true, that was the important thing.

  in fact the regimes were deeply suspicious people who took the ideology too seriously.

  people who took the ideology seriously were dangerous because they were prone to noticing the inconsistencies and flaws in the system.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Anna Marina

  There is a difference between Watchtower ideology (ever changing 1914ism) and Christianity (the unchanging teachings of Jesus Christ).

  Watchtower seeks to attract Christians and take advantage of their good nature.
  
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  16

  Ray Franz - Why The Watchtower Cannot Reform

  by Anna Marina in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is me reading a letter ray kindly sent to me in 2008 explaining why the watchtower was not capable of reform.

  the letter is full of wisdom and is very informative.. ray franz's letter to me - why the watchtower cannot reform.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Anna Marina

  Hi Half Banana - not only have I got responses, they became friends and I still visit. The same is true of Christine who I also made a video of, she has kept up friendships with some she studied with.

  One response in particular stands out to me. One of my calls said, "I used to explain to my family, she's the one who THINKS she's a Jehovah's Witness, but she's not really." Apparently she said that to them for years.

  Another said, "well you were never like them." So you see, they have no sense that I have changed my loyalties, they just wonder what on earth made me imagine I was a Jehovah's Witness.
  

  A fair few have come out of my ex-cong and we are all together scratching our heads at what we've been through. I reckon there a queue of others just lining up to come out and scratch their heads with us. :)

  Hi Slimboyfat - would running out of money make a difference? Maybe but what do they need money for if they have mind control? They have land and labour. Also they shift money around. They could claim to have no money in one country and have loads in another. Ray said to me that it was wishful thinging to imagine they'd reform, if there was no sign they were doing so. I guess that's the key point - there is no sign of them doing so. Not as an organsation. Individuals may reform. But if the reform is honest, that is in line with Christian truth, they get kicked out because then they are at odds with the organisational structure which does not support Christian truth.
  

  Charles Davis said the Catholic Church would need to change their identity to reform because the framwork was too rigid to allow proper reform.
  
• 
  39

  The real dividing line isn’t between apostates and apologists it’s between...

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  excellent observation from zizek about communist regimes: they didn’t care if people accepted the ideology or took it seriously, so long as people acted as if the ideology was true, that was the important thing.

  in fact the regimes were deeply suspicious people who took the ideology too seriously.

  people who took the ideology seriously were dangerous because they were prone to noticing the inconsistencies and flaws in the system.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Anna Marina

  I have this belief that the number three is the number three and not the number eleven. I got df'd for it.

  That article about not learning Hebrew and Greek was read to me by David Sidbury at London Bethel when I asked if they'd be developing a web site that would hold different versions of the Bible including Greek and Hebrew. He told me it'd be far too expensive. Pah. Now look, they've got a massive web site and broadcasting thing set up.

  I am grateful that at least he didn't pull out a Kingdom Ministry telling me I shouldn't learn elementary maths.